Naval Historical Center Oral Interview Summary Form
Naval Historical CenterOral Interview Summary FormInterviewers:CDR Carol O’HaganYNCS(AW) Kathleen WrightInterviewer’s Organization:Naval Historical CenterNaval Historical CenterInterviewee:Sgt. Marshall Paull, USMCCurrent Address:Date of Interview:26 Feb 02(w) – CMC HQMCPlace of Interview:Navy AnnexNumber of Cassettes:OneSecurity Classification:UnclassifiedName of Project: Pentagon Terrorist Attack IncidentSubject Terms/Key Words: Pentagon; Terrorist Attack; 11 September 2001; DefenseProtective Service; FBI; carnage; Navy Command Center; Search and Recovery; RemainsRecovery; LeadershipAbstract of Interview:Interviewee Information: SGT Paull was born in, PA but was raised in the suburbsof Knoxville, TN. He graduated high school and joined the Marine Corps in October 1995because he needed more direction and discipline in his life. He was given a guarantee to be inthe audiovisual field and became a combat photographer. He is the first person in his family tobe in active duty military. His grandfather, however, served in the National Guard during theKorean War. After completing boot camp and combat training he went to NAS Pensacola to theDefense Photography School. From there he spent 1 year in Okinawa, Japan with Third MarineDivision Combat Camera. He then received orders to Yuma, AZ. While in Yuma he was able tofly with the different units training there, which bolstered his love for aviation. He received hisNaval Aircrewman wings on the C-12 during this time. Part of his duties was to stand photoduty for aircraft mishaps. Anytime there was an aircraft mishap aboard the air station the dutyphotographer had to document what remained. While in Arizona he documented about 11different aviation mishaps, four of which were fatalities. Every year before the annual air showin Yuma they would have a mass casualty drill to practice in case a plane had to ditch in thecrowd. The drama students from the local high school would play hysterical, woundedindividuals. He documented two out of the four mass casualty drills while there, allowing him tobe exposed to seeing mass casualties in a chaotic environment. He submitted a portfolio tobecome the Commandant’s Photographer and interviewed for the position. He received thatassignment and arrived in Washington, D.C. in May 2001. He has enjoyed being on GeneralJones’ staff meeting the important people and all the travel. It is stressful living someone else’slife. His job is to follow the Commandant around to document the tour of the Commandant aswell as take public relations photographs. He is also responsible for sending the photographs outto the people who have requested or been promised them. He plans on putting in an officer1
package after he finishes his degree. He would like to try for either aviation or public affairs.He could also go to Syracuse University to the Advance Photojournalism course. Three monthsafter General Jones retires he will be eligible to put in a Warrant Officer package. He has hadincredible experiences since 11 Sep, touring Ground Zero, meeting Mayor Guiliani, meetingmany people affected in New York City, and visiting Afghanistan and the marines at CampRhino over Christmas.Topics Discussed:On 11 Sep it was going to be an easy day, with only one event, General Jones having breakfastwith former Secretary of the Navy James Webb. He went to that and then went to the office toprepare to shoot the meets and greets. He was looking at the television in General Jones’reception area. He saw smoke coming from the Trade Towers and told his Gunny that they wereshowing replays of the World Trade Center from 1993. He then realized it wasn’t a replay and aplane had hit the building. Everyone started to watch the television. People were speculatingthat the pilot was off course. They then saw the second plane hit the building on live television.They alerted the Commandant. The Commandant watched the television for about five minutes.They were in space 4E714.He walked back to where his office was in 4C672, which was 200 yards from where the last firedamage happened. President Bush was saying on the radio that two planes had hit the WorldTrade Center and this kind of attack on the country wouldn’t stand. SGT Paull said, “At least itdidn’t hit the Pentagon”, and two minutes later he felt the impact. It felt like someone pushedhim sideways in his chair and the ceiling tiles rattled and some of the sheetrock had cracked.The alarms started going on and people in the hallway were yelling, “Oh my God, they’ve hitus.” The Gunny told them they needed to evacuate so he grabbed his camera. They went downthe stairs towards the Medal of Honor hallway and started to snap photos of people’sexpressions. He doesn’t think a lot of people knew what had happened, they just thought it wasdrill. As they were walking through the NATO corridor he looked through the window into thecourtyard and could see the black smoke. He knew it was aviation fuel burning. Very quicklyhe saw the some of the black smoke turn to gray when something else began to burn. There wasa bottleneck in Corridor Two and people couldn’t move. Some people were yelling, “At ease”,and that calmed people down. They went out to South Parking and they could see the smokewas coming from the area near the helicopter pad. As they walked out the black smoke was allover their heads and an ever-present smell of jet fuel was in the air.He ran to where he saw people setting up triage areas to try to help. There were some Navydoctors in khakis and Army medics who were helping with Arlington County to set up triageareas. He helped them unload equipment. This was about 10 or 15 minutes after the plane hit.They hadn’t started to fight the fire because they needed AFFF to fight the aviation gas fire.He started guiding people to the triage areas while he was taking photos. They pulled out about5 more people who were pretty badly burned. The firemen came out of the doorway and saidthere were no more, everybody was dead. This was about 30 minutes after the impact.An alarm was then sounded saying another plane was coming. The DPS guys were saying thisas well as everyone else. They ran up to where 395 crosses in front of South Parking. Then thewedge of the Pentagon collapsed. It didn’t make a sound, it just sifted down. This was about1020. The only loud noise he remembers was the F-16’s flying over breaking the sound barrier.2
They continued to wait by the highway.They kept going around looking to help. They then started to tape off the area and the firementold them there was nobody else left inside, everyone was dead. The DPS and FBI were arrivingon the scene. A FBI Special Agent asked him if he would go up in a National Guard helicopterwith him to take some aerial photos. They did three passes around the Pentagon with him takingphotos.A DEA agent let him use his phone to call his wife and let her know he was okay.It started getting dark and he was with some of the FBI agents he met. They passed around tybecsuits, goggles and hard hats. He wanted to go inside the Pentagon. About 9 p.m. they suited upand were going to take pictures. They had already had some FBI agents go in and mark wherebodies and remains were with cadaver dogs. They called them off and then put everyone onshifts. Team A would go in from 6 a.m. – 6 p.m. and Team B 6 p.m. - 6 a.m. He was put on ateam and went home at midnight. He watched the coverage on television and this was the firsttime he heard the World Trade Center towers had collapsed.The next morning he left his house around 0515 and made it through about four securitycheckpoints on Columbia Pike, through some barriers and was dropped off. He rendezvousedwith the FBI people he had met before. They were divided into teams of four, two body bearers,a scribe and a photographer. They spent most of the morning on 12 Sep looking for serializedaircraft parts and doing relationship shots with the crater. About 1130 they actually suited upand went into the building. They entered from South Parking and the Army Old Guard waswaiting outside to load the bodies on trucks. There was water inside the building about mid-calfhigh. The water was black and thick with pieces of sheetrock and ceiling tile floating on top ofthe water. They had tybec suits, gloves, goggles and respirators on. They had entered from theSouth Parking area through a door on the E ring and walked down the hallway toward the impactarea. They went towards the Navy Command Center. It was like night and day; as soon as youcrossed the threshold of a door it was like a black pit. They had to navigate a three dimensionalmaze of charred office furniture, sheetrock walls and other things. The modular furniture was allcrumpled and the ceiling tiles and vents had come down. There were still big manuals that werelike burning embers. If they took their masks off they couldn’t breathe from more than a secondfrom the noxious fumes.They moved very slowly and methodically. They went over to the corner of the Navy CommandCenter and there was the back half of a cubicle standing with the other half blown over. Therewere two petty officers in whites that looked like they had either crawled under the desk to seekshelter or had been blown under the desk. They weren’t too badly disfigured and looked likethey died of suffocation or concussion. He documented them and they were body bagged andcarried out. Anytime he sees their names in a roster it really upset him. A lot of the people theyfound they could tell what they were doing when the plane hit. One person who was in the samearea as the Navy Command Center was found intact except for his head. As they got closer tothe center of the crater the remains were more charred and unrecognizable. They could seewhere the ceiling was slanting down on them. They were looking at the ground for the brightorange paint the Urban SAR had marked for remains but thinking about the ceiling that mightfall on them. They were inside about 1-½ hours and he had had enough. They recovered 6bodies that one time. They made their way back out to the decontamination station.3
On Thursday, 13 Sep they changed the security and there was fence up and badges were requiredto go in. He just sat around with the FBI people on this day waiting for his number to be called,but it was not. On Friday, 14 Sep they asked him to go inside again. They went in at the left ofthe impact center. They documented two bodies under office furniture. Anytime they saw abottom of a chair they found a body nearby because so many people were sitting in their chairswhen it hit. Some of the remains they found were just rib bones with ashes around it like it hadbeen in a incinerator. They went further into the Navy Command Center and found a lot ofbodies. There were a lot of female bodies and that unnerved him. The top half of many of theremains were charred, but the bottom half that had been guarded by debris or the water was stillrecognizable. They found about six more bodies that day.Friday, 14 Sep was the last day he went in to the Pentagon. On Saturday they had already found113 people. They didn’t want as many people going in and started more safety measures.They had been picking up bits and pieces of remains prior to midday 12 Sep. But he was in oneof the first teams that went in to do body recovery, and this was around midday Wednesday, 12Sep.To get through this experience one thing he did was focus on the technicalities of picture taking.He thinks about what happened less and less now. Every 11th of the month he finds himselfremembering. He doesn’t dream about the experience, but he has daydreams. He finds things hesees reminding him of that day.He doesn’t remember finding many airplane parts inside the crater. Most of the plane parts theyfound were outside the building. He doesn’t remember recovering anyone from the airplane.He thinks the amazing progress they are making on rebuilding the Pentagon is a sign.He talked to the Psychological Debrief Team. Ever since this happened he can’t rememberanything. A lot of things he thought were important before don’t stress him as much.He thinks there are people who have captured this opportunity to make themselves look likesomething they are not. He wanted to help people get away from the danger and document it forhistorical purposes.There is rumored to be a film from the NEX gas station that shows the plane hitting thePentagon. He has also heard that the VDOT camera on Route 27 should have captured that onfilm. There are DPS cameras on each side of the Pentagon; he thinks they would also have it onfilm.When everyone was being evacuated he saw a lot of Marine Corps officers charging ahead andcame out as true leaders. He saw the Marines taking charge of the situation. Col George Flynn,the Military Secretary for the Commandant of the Marine Corps stands out in his mind. He had abullhorn and was leading the body bearers around. There were a lot of marines helping toreassure people. He noticed the Marine Corps was more calm and reassuring under pressure thatthe other services. The medical people did what they had to do, but the Marine Corps wereacting more professionally and in an aggressive manner. There were a lot of Marine Officer,LTCOL’s and Colonels who took charge of the situation and did what he expected a Marineofficer to do.4
The civilian secretaries were getting upset, but other than that he didn’t see anything remarkablydifferent between the genders in terms of their response to the situation.Abstracted by:CDR Carol O’Hagan28 Feb 025
Naval Historical CenterOral Interview Summary FormInterviewers:CDR Carol O’HaganYNCS(AW) Kathleen WrightInterviewer’s Organization:Naval Historical CenterNaval Historical CenterInterviewee:Sgt. Marshall Paull, USMCCurrent Address:Date of Interview:26 Feb 02(w) – CMC HQMCPlace of Interview:Navy AnnexNumber of Cassettes:OneSecurity Classification:UnclassifiedName of Project: Pentagon Terrorist Attack IncidentSubject Terms/Key Words: Pentagon Photographer; Remains Recovery; Leadership;Pentagon; Terrorist Attack; 11 September 2001; FBI; Navy Command CenterTranscript of Interview:Interviewee Information:SGT Paull was born in, PA but was raised in the suburbs of Knoxville, TN. Hegraduated high school and joined the Marine Corps in October 1995 because he needed moredirection and discipline in his life. He was given a guarantee to be in the audiovisual field andbecame a combat photographer. He is the first person in his family to be in active duty military.His grandfather, however, served in the National Guard during the Korean War. Aftercompleting boot camp and combat training he went to NAS Pensacola to the DefensePhotography School. From there he spent 1 year in Okinawa, Japan with Third Marine DivisionCombat Camera. He then received orders to Yuma, AZ. While in Yuma he was able to fly withthe different units training there, which bolstered his love for aviation. He received his NavalAircrewman wings on the C-12 during this time. Part of his duties was to stand photo duty foraircraft mishaps. Anytime there was an aircraft mishap aboard the air station the dutyphotographer had to document what remained. While in Arizona he documented about 11different aviation mishaps, four of which were fatalities. Every year before the annual air showin Yuma they would have a mass casualty drill to practice in case a plane had to ditch in thecrowd. The drama students from the local high school would play hysterical, woundedindividuals. He documented two out of the four mass casualty drills while there, allowing him tobe exposed to seeing mass casualties in a chaotic environment. He submitted a portfolio tobecome the Commandant’s Photographer and interviewed for the position. He received thatassignment and arrived in Washington, D.C. in May 2001. He has enjoyed being on General1
Jones’ staff meeting the important people and all the travel. It is stressful living someone else’slife. His job is to follow the Commandant around to document the tour of the Commandant aswell as take public relations photographs. He is also responsible for sending the photographs outto the people who have requested or been promised them. He plans on putting in an officerpackage after he finishes his degree. He would like to try for either aviation or public affairs.He could also go to Syracuse University to the Advance Photojournalism course. Three monthsafter General Jones retires he will be eligible to put in a Warrant Officer package. He has hadincredible experiences since 11 Sep, touring Ground Zero, meeting Mayor Guiliani, meetingmany people affected in New York City, and visiting Afghanistan and the marines at CampRhino over Christmas.Topics Discussed:Q. (10:24) Let’s go ahead and move to September 11th, if you would. Try to remember to thebest of your ability what started the beginning of the day, just your coming in in the morning andlet’s work through the day from there.A. Pull out my little photo album here. Have a kind of a momento thing I kept. This is one of therolls of film I had in my camera. Can they hear me leaning over like this? (from this point on theinterviewee is showing and explaining the photos he took of 9-11 as he talks)Q. Yes.A. Ok, all right. September 11th. Wow, I was really happy. I remember that morning. It was abeautiful morning. I woke up. I was stoked because football season had just begun.(Chuckles)Really happy, you know, it was an easy morning. It was going to be an easy day. There was onlylike one event. GENERAL JONES was going to have breakfast with former Secretary of NavyJAMES H. WEBB, and showed up for that. I went to the office to prepare to shoot you know, themeets and greets and the handshake shots. I’m standing there looking at the TV. There’s a TV inGENERAL JONES’ reception area. I looked and I see smoke coming from the Trade Towers.2
I’m like, I talked to my boss, GUNNY NESSON (phonetic), and I’m like, “Gunny, look. They’reshowing replays of the World Trade center,” you know from ’93. I kind of did a double take andlooked at it again and said, “That’s not a replay, that a, a plane’s hit that building.”As soon as I said that everybody started drawing their interest toward the TV, and we looked atit. You know, we’re all looking at it, and everybody was speculating. A lot of the Majors in myoffice were like, “Well, you know the pilot was just off course,” you know. They flew close tothose buildings sometimes.And we all, you know were deducing it down to an accident. Then the second plane right in frontof our eyes on live television, BAM, hit the building. Then everybody was just saying, “Oh, myGod another hit the plane, another hit the building.” Then they alerted the Commandant. Theywere like “Sir, you know there’s been two planes that hit the building,” and whatever was said. Ican’t recall what all, what all was said to him. But he stood there in his foyer watching the TVfor about a good five minutes and that’s when I took this picture of him and –Q. (12:28) What room, what space is this?A. This is 4E714. It’s right next to the SECNAV’s office. I took this picture of him looking at theTrade Towers on fire there, and I’m not sure what he was feeling. I can’t really read his emotionsthat well. I mean, I can tell when he’s happy, but a lot, you know, I didn’t ask him. I don’t reallytalk to him like on a personal level. I you know just keep it, keep it real basic with work.After that, after the second one hit, I sat there just watching it and it’s like, you know, this isterrorist attacks, and it’s such an asymmetrical attack, you know. You couldn’t defend againstthat. I just talked to a couple of my co-workers, about “wow,” you know. Couldn’t believe whathappened. I was just, I was dumbfounded. I walked from that office back to our office.3
Our office was in 4C672, which is actually I’d say about two hundred yards from where the lastfire damage was. I walked back there and I just sat back down at my desk and I was going to dosomething to take my mind off of it, and they were playing, President Bush was, you know,addressing on the radio, “Two planes have hit the World Trade Center. This kind of attack on ourcountry will not stand.”In our office, we like to call ourselves the backbone of the operation, Team 32 and theCommandant. We have, we have to keep a sense of humor about what we do or else we’ll just allgo insane, because it’s a very, it’s a very stressful what we do, because we’re like all-purposeutility people. Like we mail out all the invitations. We record all the guests who are coming.RSVPs. Everything, you know. People call in and ask us questions about uniforms. It’s verylabor intensive job at the office where I work. We were just joking around, and I said something,you know, to the effect of “at least it didn’t hit the Pentagon,” like that. About, as soon as I saidthat, about two minutes later, WHAM! I mean it was like, when it hit it felt—I was in a chair andit felt like somebody pushed me sideways in my chair like that. The ceiling tiles, they, we hadpretty much the same ceiling tiles in that office. They rattled, like pressure change in the room isthe best way I could describe it. They just, they just rattled like that and you could tell some ofthe sheet rock like cracked, and there was dust coming down. Then the alarm started going onand people in the hallway were yelling, “Oh my God, they’ve hit us!” I was wearing, I wasn’twearing a suit that day. I was wearing the Charlie uniform, the green trousers with the khakishort-sleeve shirt. I had my camera sitting pretty much like this, and I had my wallet and mycover and everything was all out on my desk. As soon as they, as soon as GUNNY and themwere like, “Hey! We got to get out of here!” I grabbed my camera, and we started evacuatingdown. We went down, there’s a flight of stairs that goes down to the MacArthur hallway. We4
went down toward the Medal of Honor hallway, and I saw, just the looks on the people’s facesand I tried to snap some photos of just the expressions and stuff. I don’t think a lot of peopleknew exactly what had happened. I think they just thought it was a drill. But as we were walkingthrough, we walked from there. We turned. I guess you turn left? Or, yes left, and you go into theNATO corridor. NATO corridor is on the A ring on the second floor. I looked through thewindow and you could see the black smoke from the jet fuel. I mean it’s just obv- it’s aviationsmoke, because what this reminds me of is when I was in Yuma, the crash fire rescue guys, theairfield rescue would burn jet fuel in a pit and they would fight fire with it and that’s exactlywhat that reminded me of. And I was like, “Man, that’s an airplane.”Q. (17:01) So this photograph that we are looking at is from the window –A. Into the courtyard,Q, The center courtyard, and then across to the –A. Across to the other side. So we’re in the 7th corridor in this photo right here. I walked by acouple of windows down and took another photo. You could see where it started turning graysmoke. Where it was starting to burn something else besides jet fuel. I mean jet fuel was stillburning, and as you got closer you could smell the JP8, or JP4 whatever they use. Being aroundaviation that long you know that smell. I mean, it’s almost like when you smell coffee brewing,you know what it smells like.This is, there was a bottleneck going into corridor 2 in the South Parking. Everybody wasstanding in there and just like you couldn’t move, you couldn’t go forward. People were trying toget out. And you couldn’t go back, and people were just, there was some like, you know, kind of5
low rumbling, “Oh, my God,” you know,”What’s going on?” And the only thing that kept goingthrough my mind was God, please don’t let a second airplane hit us right now where thisentrance is. Because I mean, I just kept on thinking ambush, because if the second airplanewould have hit here, there would have been a lot of carnage, because everything was beingbottlenecked to going out of South Parking entrance, right there.I raised my camera up over my head and took a photo of some of the expressions and you cansee, you know, some people are trying – there was a public address system, which sounds like aMcDonald’s drive-through, if you ask me in the Pentagon. You could see some of them trying tolisten and there was other people you know, telling them to “At ease,” you know. It was verycalm for what I remember, because it was just like, people would be like, “At east!” Silence overthe whole crowd.I was like “Thank God, we’re working with all the, mostly all military here,” because you knowif it was just civilians, people would be going ape crap right now, so.Q. (18:56) Were the civilians listening to those commands, though too?A. Yes, they were. They were, kept pretty calm and we slowly filed out of South Parking and aswe got out on – this is the road that runs over South Parking, and next to where the shuttle busesdrop off. You could see where it hit. And I was thinking, you know, I was like, “Man, he ran ajet into where the helicopter pad was.” Or I was thinking – there was a couple of things goingthrough my mind. I was thinking you know, they ran the jet there or a helicopter had bombs on itor something. I don’t know, I was just, a lot was going through my head then.But as we walked out it was almost like morning time, because there was so much smoke comingover our head. Just black smoke and it was, you can see how thick it was and how it’s cast a6
shadow on where—everybody here. There was the ever-present smell of jet fuel in the area. Itwas pretty wild.I walked out with my co-worker. That’s actually my boss right there, Mr. MARK TULLES, he’sa GS12. He’s a protocol officer. That was his first day on the job. He reported in September 11,and I’m like “Sir, you all right? I’m going to go help people.”And so from there I ran down as fast as I could down to where I saw them setting up triage areasand I was taking some pictures of those running through the parking lot. You can see, as I getcloser to the edge of the building where the black, thick black smoke from the jet fuel is comingup around where the helo pad is.It starts, you know you start to get pretty much into daylight. You don’t have the smoke cloudcover anymore. I ran up and there was some, I guess, Navy doctor types there. They were inkhakis and some Army medics that were there and they were helping with the Arlington County.I think Arlington County was one of their first responders on deck there.Q. (20:59) So they were already, Arlington County was already there by the time you gotoutside?A. Yes. Well they weren’t fighting the fire yet. They were setting up triage areas. They put downlike mass casualty mats for fluids and stuff like that, and you know, I was helping them unloadstuff and I got into the mindset to you know, to help and then I’m like, “OK, this is history. I’vegot to document it,” because that’s what combat photographers are trained to do. That’s what Ipreach to my Marines when I’ve been in charge of them. Here I don’t have any subordinates, butthat’s what I preach to them and as you can see, you can see the emergency vehicles in theforeground and the white of the vehicles contrasting with the black smoke.7
Q. (21:40) How long after the plane hit would you say it was before you got outside?A. Ten, fifteen minutes. Yes, this is ten, fifteen minutes afterwards, because we were, we werebottlenecked up in the South Parking entrance for a little while. And I, I was worried. I was like,"Man, if another plane hits, we are in trouble.” And here you can see that they haven’t evenstarted to fight the fire yet. There’s fire trucks. They’ve shown up, but I don’t believe that theywere going to try to fight it with regular – they needed the fire, the aerial fire fighting fluid andyou see people standing around in disbelief. And in this shot, I tried to include the telephone polethat the plane knocked down on its approach to show how low it was to the ground and you cansee that the fifth floor, upper floors hadn’t collapsed yet. But it actually collapsed after the fireraged on for a little while.At this point you know, we grabbed—after I took a couple of pictures, went in. More peoplestarted showing up and it’s – I don’t know who that guy is. I never got his name. This is peopleunloading backboards and stretchers and stuff. More pictures of the telephone pole.This is where they’re actually fighting the fire with AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam). Istarted helping people carry people out, and guiding them which way the triage area was while Iwas taking photos. You can see the Army medics. This guy had a pretty bad head wound there.You had just, theses were like walking wounded right here. (he's pointing something out on apicture) You get into some pretty bad photos.Then we got up closer where they point out some of the more charred and unrecognizable things.But got up here and after about, after they pulled out about five more bodies, like this guy righthere, he was, you can see him laying face first. He’s pretty bloated and burned up and stuff likethat.8
I think, I want to say this guy lived, because I thought I saw him on the “News and Review” awhile ago, but after we helped pull out some people and stretchers, the firemen came out of thedoorway right here. He goes, “There’s no more. They’re all dead.” Like that and just like, thatwas, that was rough. They did what they could, and there was a lot of people that was ready tohelp. I mean everybody banned together and worked really well.Q. (24:19) How long do you think it was before you heard the fireman say that?A. About thirty minutes after the whole thing happened.Q. (24:35) OK.A. You know that’s a close up shot. You can see a lot of this in the foreground. There’s a lot ofplane parts and the windows are busted out, and all kinds of miscellaneous burnt stuff. T
CDR Carol O’Hagan Naval Historical Center YNCS(AW) Kathleen Wright Naval Historical Center Interviewee: Current Address: Sgt. Marshall Paull, USMC (w) – CMC HQMC Date of Interview: Place of Intervie
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