RSGB EMC COMMITTEE

RSGB EMC COMMITTEEMinutes of meeting held over Skype at 19:30, 16th January 20201. General.Present:Dr. John RogersDr. Martin SachStephen BrowningSteve CarterHilary ClaytonsmithDr. David LauderBob BennettM0JAV (JR)G8KDF (MS)G8WUR (SB)G8EPA(SC)G4JKS (HC)G0SNO (DL)G8BFF(BB)Acting Chairman1.1Apologies for absence. – Apologies were received from David Taylor.1.2Agree the Minutes.Meeting date: 21st November 2019The Minutes of this meeting were agreed.Action1.31.3.1Review Action up-date.(1.3.1) Write a letter to the equipment donor to formally thank him for theequipment.1.3.2 (3.1) Helpdesk - 362 - SolarEdge remains on DL investigation visit list. Poorsunlight prevails. Other Wind-farm sites and Air Source Heat Pumps are to bevisited.1.3.3 (3.1) Forum to be closed after archive, as there has been no further activity onthe site since the last EMCC meeting.1.3.4 (3.1) Helpdesk - 379. Case closed. Kevin Avery (Tunstall Telecom) has taken onthe issue and the matter of RF immunity testing, should EMCC wish to pursuethis further?1.3.5 (3.1) Helpdesk - 398. DL - A high level case to be reviewed further, if it remainsactive?1.3.6 (3.1) Helpdesk - 404. Reported in RadCom, with another (UK) case of router shutdown being notified. Further investigation is required.1.3.7 (2.2) Shanghai CISPR plenary - MS will prepare an abridged version of theShanghai conference IARU report (with photographs). HC to review contentbefore distribution to EMCC.1.3.9 (3.3) WPT-EV Texas testing to be carried out at the end of January. Reviewavailability of material in February for a possible RadCom article.1.3.10 (3.6) EMC Leaflet 15 completed, but the link to the RA remains out of date.DL had circulated details of this web-site location. JR to correct the EMCC pagelink accordingly.1.3.11 (3.7) Air source heat pump. Amateur in contact with Mitsubishi and a follow-upvisit from Japan likely? Considered to be a pure H field source in common withWPT. Measurements at far field distance can be taken for comparison with CISPRtheoretical. The pump is a wideband source of interference and EN55014induction heating limits may have been applied incorrectly in this case?DLDLJRDLJR/DLDLMS/HCHCJRDL1.3.12 (3.7a) DL to write a job specification for investigations EMCC recruitment.DLVersion 1.0, Edit date, 21st January 2020,Page 1 of 6D.R. Taylor GD4FMB

1.41.4.11.4.21.4.3Matters arising not on the agenda/ Topics for AOB.(4.3) MS has contacted PW regarding interim EMCC chair for January 2020.JRJR to act temporarily until new appointment.Windfarm –EMC. Vattenfall. Norwich club contacted by DL (15/01) and will take DLthe lead in discussion. (Norfolk Vanguard, wind farm trunking/ grid connectedpower conversion). Monitor progress as per the Daedalus/ Fareham system.Chairman’s email account. To be transferred to JR. - Ref (1.4.1).JR2. Key Issues.2.1Progress with Ofcom. –In consequence of the Ofcom/RSGB RFI correspondence, SC circulated a draftnote (12/01) intended to be sent to RSGB members as a one-page letter withsupplementary annexes. The intention is to increase the number of VDSLinterference complaints made to Ofcom. We need to discuss, when and how thisshould be sent out and with what level of instruction. The inclusion of an exampleresponse is to be considered, taking care not to detrimentally unify the responsesto Ofcom. JR stated that each response sent to Ofcom is a complaint against aparticular type of RFI and should therefore be considered individually. HCsuggested shortening the scope of the letter even further and including theannexes and other material in Radcom as part of a multi page article. MS referredto the CISPR TR 16-4-4 complaints procedures for guidance. SC will receive EMCC All/member comments on the letter content.SCHC raised the concern over the correct interpretation of instruction andmeasurement taken amongst amateurs and that this was regardless of the highquality of the supporting documentation (provided with the Lelantos software).MS experienced similar problems with some Lelantos users. HC suggested atriage process for all complaints correspondence of this type, which Ofcomwould probably endorse?JR stated that RFI complaints made to Ofcom are to be of a general type, withspecific instructions being applied if VDSL interference is considered to be adominant cause after measurements taken. Noting further that any follow-upVDSL RFI correspondence submitted to Openreach has in the past, required thecompletion of a comprehensive signals measurement report made on behalf ofthe amateur that takes typically takes 2 ½ hours to complete.SC suggested offering a validation of incoming RFI complaints as a betteralternative to a simple filter and reject approach. Genuine cases of VDSL wouldthen be (automatically) referred to Openreach as has previously been the casefor line-balance checking. The option for making direct RFI complaints to Ofcomremaining open.SC suggested the use of loan SDR equipment organised through clubs or localrepresentatives being more expedient? HC questioned the value of this and therisks associated with poor training and equipment use. HC suggested making aclear, open and advanced approach to Ofcom explaining the RFI concerns thatwe have and the means of evidence collection that we are proposing to useacross the RSGB membership.A response to the Ofcom/ Marnick letter needs to be made urgently inacknowledgement and that we are continuing to pursue the issues. In additionRSGB will encourage the wider membership to report cases of RFI.Version 1.0 Edit date, 21st January 2020,Page 2 of 6D.R. Taylor GD4FMB

JR suggested making reference to the 2017 survey results in the same reply toOfcom.MS stated that RFI complaints should be directed to Ofcom or risk being ignoredin the statistics. Ofcom are under pressure from Openreach as a result of thenumber of customer complaints and visits etc. MS also made the point that themoney saved by not carrying out managed VDSL installations should have beenspent on notching. SC and JR questioned the validity as the cost to customer waslower with self-installed termination and wiring. DL added that download speedsare generally higher and RFI lower with managed installations.DL was asked to check the penultimate paragraph on page 4 of SC document sent DL(12/01)JR summarised:1. A response is made containing reference to historical results confirmingour intention to continue to pursue all RFI issues.2. Make ready a letter dealing specifically with VDSL.3. Do we want to go any further with the JR email (12/01) - EMC actionsfrom Board paper, having first considered point D in this meeting?Planning for all (A – D) will proceed in parallel. Tentative release dates werediscussed and made available by the board.Feedback to JR on the executive summary sent (12/01) is requested.“Action against RFI sub-committee update.”2.2AllResources and Focus – Given that EMCC now has eight members, with suggestionfor “sub-committees” as follows, with two people attached to each. Autonomousworking for the most part.1.2.3.4.Help, Advice and website – (to the membership).Standards including IARU liaisonAction against RFIInvestigations – (of selected type).Investigation would selected by topic or product based for example HeatPumps, Wind-Farm DC/AC conversion and WPT, with the intention of fullysupporting the investigation to a satisfactory conclusion.SC and HC suggested the term “team” to better convey function andorganisation and the use of a proper committee structure to report into. TheEMCC committee must continue to come together regularly and at other times,should the situation arise.DL considered that the current Skype meeting schedule is not excessive and hasadvantages.JR remarked that the number of EMCC actions completed has consistentlyremained low in proportion to those open and discussed.MS agreed that the Skype meetings helped to discuss and set priorities andapply pressure when necessary. There is also an essential information exchangeof value to each discipline.DL commented that the Helpdesk has been particularly useful in identifyingnew sources of RFI. LED streetlights as example.The four “sub-group” structure was agreed in principle.Version 1.0 Edit date, 21st January 2020,Page 3 of 6D.R. Taylor GD4FMB

Six Skype EMCC meeting per year will continue to be the norm.Details moving forward.1. BB, supported by Ken to continue with the Help Desk.2. Standards including IARU liaison mainly MS and HC, with support by DLon the noise measurement campaign. JR noted that it was important toensure that (member) overload does not take place, resulting in otheropen work items not being properly carried out and concluded.JR mentioned the high cost to benefit of earlier RSGB noisemeasurement campaigns. Current investigations topics were discussedwith new Wind-Farm developments and Heat Source Pumps takingpriority. DL noted that no absolute priority could be set on account ofprojects overlapping. MS added that the continuing development ofnew product and equipment made closure difficult or impossible unlesssome satisfactory limits can be agreed by CISPR.The production of progress reports on new or emerging technologies,by EMCC members was essential. HC suggested making follow-uprequests to the membership for technical assistance at eachprogression, using as example the RadCom EMC column.BB/KenDL4. Group Reports. Review necessary actions.3.1Help Desk Advice and Website –Case 405 closed without further comment.Case 406. Identify router and power supply type for future reference.BBJR asked whether the widespread use of SMPSU’s of this type on account ofefficiency should be taken up with IARU. The problem of non-compliant productin volume manufacture and Trading Standards is an issue.MS stated that this was Select Committee material because of the underlyingillegal practices.Case 407 is not and EMC issue.JR added that the number of EMC issues being reported (to EMCC) is on thedecline and that this is concurred by UKQRM. HC questioned whether the EMCinformation generally being made available to help with problem solving iscontributing to this decline? JR stated that this is now evidenced by the largequantity of EMC problems being answered from other RSGB technical sourcesand from elsewhere.MS added that non-compliant product should be returned with a letter forrefund.MS asked if the numbers of HF operators were known, in order that the scale ofthe problem can be assessed?HC suggested taking a census from the membership, adding that RSGB would beinterested in this for their own purposes. JR was concerned that the low numberof Help Desk responses might be due to the perception that nobody is doinganything to reduce the background noise?Version 1.0 Edit date, 21st January 2020,Page 4 of 6D.R. Taylor GD4FMB