Stanley Carmichael Kennedy, Jr.

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STANLEY CARMICHAEL KENNEDY, JR.THE WATUMULL FOUNDATION ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

STANLEY CARMICHAEL KENNEDY, JR.(1921 -)Stanley Kennedy,Jr.,son and grandson oftransportation pioneers of the Hawaiian Islands,tells of his grandfather's and father's roles in thedevelopment of Inter-Island Steam Navigation al and professional backgrounds of his parentsand grandparents are described.Mr.Kennedy's early education and life inHonolulu, college years on the mainland and navalduties of World War II are related. His inental Airlines, along with changes in theaviation industry and the marketing of tourism, arerecounted.His ongoing interest in the field of aviation,best demonstrated by his efforts on behalf of theAerospace Museum, is noted. Mr. Kennedy also shareshis views on the future of tourism and Hawaii. 1987 The Watumull Foundation, Oral History Project2051 Young Street, Honolulu, Hawaii 96826All rights reserved.This transcript, or any partthereof, may not be reproduced in any form withoutthe permission of the Watumull Foundation.

INTERVIEW WITH STANLEY CARMICHAEL KENNEDY, JR.At his home, 1010 Wilder Avenue, Honolulu, HawaiiMarch 11, 1986K:Stanley C. KennedyS:Alice Sinesky, InterviewerS:If you would like to start. Do we go back beyondgrandfather here in Hawaii? How did it all start?K:My grandfather was the first in our Kennedy family toarrive here. He was born in Scotland, Kirriemuir, Scotlandin 1852. His family had all been accountants and actuarieswith garters on their sleeves and little visors on theforehead, traditionally plodding day in and day out withtheir numbers--good accountants and so forth as I gather.And that seemed a little humdrum apparently to GrandpaKennedy--he was Grandpa Kennedy to me--James A. Kennedy andhe apparently, at a relatively young age, asked his parentsif he couldn 1 t go off to see the world. And there are twostories about that.yourThe one that I like the best, which I suspect is not astrue as the other, goes something like this; that as ayoungster in his midteens he got a job as a cabin boy on anaround-the-world sailing vessel and off he went. Some yearand a half later or thereabouts it was time for the stop inHonolulu. I don't know that he saw the land of opportunity,but he sure saw the blue water and the coconut trees and theflowers and the beautiful traditions and all those things-probably he saw the land of opportunity--and he just got offand jumped ship. That was the beginning of our family herein Honolulu and Hawaii.S:K:Do you have any idea of what year that was?Well, I don't think that's a true story, that's one ofthe tales. I think what really happened was that he got asfar as California. He wasn't a teenager--he was a littleolder than that and he got as far as California and that'swhere he got off the ship, and while he was there he wasoffered a job and got some good experience. He was doingsome accounting (apparently it was for a steamship firm) andhe got interested in steamships and that business. I thinkhe perhaps had a little apprenticeship of some sort inScotlandbeforeheleftwhichindicatesmaybehewas

2apprenticed there and didn't leave until his twenties or hislate teens. Several things I've seen indicate that he hadsome business experience in Scotland and California beforecoming to Hawaii. That seems to be truer than not althoughthe other story is alittle more glamorous. Anyway hewas in San Francisco from 1874 to 1880.S:K:Oh, it is--it's more romantic.Nevertheless, the real story, I believe, is the oneI've related secondly. The job he got when he arrived inHonolulu was with Honolulu Iron Works and he was d specifically into the steamship business. They did allsorts of shipwork and performed repairs on ships and thatkind of thing. And before that it 1 s been recorded that hehad about ten years of previous business experience. Soadding that on top of maybe a fifteen year old boy when hefirst worked in Edinburgh, Scotland, you can figure he wastwenty-five years old when he arrived in Honolulu.· That 1 s when he went to work at the Iron Works.here just before all of the changes from the monarchyforth, although I never disc us sed that with him. Ihad, but I've never seen anything too much in thehistory about that.He wasand sowish IfamilyHe had such a liking for the steamship business and forsurface transportation, which was the only form of xperience in the Iron Works into the steamship business andthat's a very interesting story. Because steamships weren'tnew to the Islands; they 1 d been going for many, many yearssince the early 1800s, and there was slow progress becausetechnological changes didn't come as rapidly as we see themtoday. But in any event, there were changes and he wasalways interested in them. He was always proving that he wasinterested in ships by being down there when they did newthings,and he handled the books for a couple of thecompanies.And there were apparently three steamship companies;there was the Wilder Steamship Company--the Wilder familywhich is an old kamaaina family owned control of that; andthen there was the Hawaiian Steamship Company, which wasrelatively new at that time--around the turn of the century;and then there was the Inter-Island Steam Navigation Company.His goal was--he was hired by businessmen who sought him out--to take over Inter-Island Steam Navigation Company and tosee if there might be any way of putting the three firmstogether.And that's exactly what he did, while Hawaiian SteamshipCompany, set up on it's own, was having a very difficult time

3and soon faded out of the picture. Wilder Steamship Company--old man Wilder passed away--and none of the sons wereinterested. One was an artist and traveller and another hadhis own special interests. So he did buy that firm for theInter-Island Steam Company, and in fact merged the twocompanies together. Inter-Island was the surviving companywith an opportunity to be a profitable operation.He worked for that steamship company and was its seniorofficer until it faded out of the picture, which was shortlyafter World War II if you can believe it. And in dfather as head of the steamship company, and at the sametime he was starting an airline for them. But the steamshipcompany was where it all started and where the relationshipwith transportation started.S:Well, did yourthis company then?K:No,hereallydidn 1 t.Heownedsharesinthecompany, but he was never a wealthy man. He was just a youngman out on his own and he did develop and acquire an interestand shares in the company as well as in other projectsthroughout the state. But in the sense of owning a majoritycontrol in either a percentage control of the corporation orowning a majority of the stock, no. He was very successfuland so the board on a continuing basis kept him wellremunerated.Many considered that he did own it, however.S:He was the company as far as they were concerned. Didhe leave family behind--brothers and sisters--in Scotland?K:I don't really know. There was family, but the extentof it, I don't know. I probably should have reviewed some ofthat--but it was never discussed. He died when I was ayoungster so I wasn't old enough to get interested in who waswho and where everyone ended up, although we have a iliarized myself lately, but we could probably determinethat if need be.S:K:grandfather,ineffect,endupowningDid he marry when he came over here?He found his wife-to-be in Oakland, California duringhis stopover there. He married her in Honolulu in 1881.Minnie C. Kirkland was her name. She was a fabulous lady.I was the only grandson so obviously I was a little spoiled.Because my grandfather died well before her passing, I was alot closer to her because I grew up knowing mostly GrandmaKennedy. She lived right near where we live now--right onSpencer and Victoria Streets--one of those big houses with awidow's walk way up on the roof where you could put atelescope. She used to tell me that Grandpa' d be out there

4checking on those ships to see if they were on time. comingor going. I thought that sounded like Cape Cod or England orwherever all of that started. But that's how it was in thosedays. There weren't the trees and there weren 1 t the highbuildings and you had a perfect view of Honolulu Harbor. Andthe little SS Kinau or whatever looked very prominent"sailing" out there.My dad was one of three children. He had a sisterJessie and a brother Derwent. Derwent went back and lived onthe mainland and Jessie lived here married a fellow namedBob Menary and part way through their marital life they toColorado. They lived in Colorado Springs for the rest oftheir lives. My dad was the remaining member of the familyhere. So there's that part of the family.S:So then did your father just inherit this interest?K:Partially. but mostly by association with his dad. Hegrew up as a young boy and I imagine--! can only remember thestories that I heard--and I followed in the footsteps of thesame program. I guess--of being with his dad just as I waswith my dad down at the dry docks when they were launching aship or down when they were repairing it or going to theNeighbor Islands to see a volcano or watch how they wereloading the cattle at Kana by lifting them out of the waterby bellybands and all of these fascinating ways they handledtradeinthosedays.Ithinkhe reallyjust becameextremely interested and inherited the interest. by bothinheritance and exposure. as I've said.S:Osmosis.K:Yes. sort of an osmosis.S:So it was just second nature to him.K1(laughs)It was second nature to him. As a matter of fact hehad a number of different jobs with the company. I thinkprobably the one that he liked best--until he got into seniormanagement--the one that he liked best was being purser onone of the larger passenger ships. These ships were theculmination of all the development of the equipment thatInter-Island used--the SS Waialeale. the SS Hualalai--inthose days they were named after mountains in Hawaii--and theSS Haleakala--the SS being orhood of two hundred passenger vessels andfirst class. and cabin class and they always hadwhere all the local gang would get on with cheaptickets and lay their lauhala mats down and bringfood because it was just an overnight trip and playinthethey hadsteeragesteeragetheir ownmusic all

5night long on the fantail. Everybody in cabin class wouldgo down and J01n in and sing songs and it was a very excitingtime. You could only do that if it was a relatively quietsea, because the channels out there could get awfully roughfor those little ships so some times it was a pretty roughdeal. But generally that was the pattern--the music on thefantail and good fun.Anway the purser on the Waialeale or the Hualalai or theHaleakala was a pretty grand person because they had thewhite uniform and it looked like Flash Gordon of yesteryear,you know. In fact, that's how he met my mother because hereshe came and she was with a couple of friends and achaperone, because that's the way it had to be in those daysand she was lucky enough that the family could send her onthis post graduation or post debutante trip or whatever itwas to Hawaii.The volcano was in action on the Big Island and youcouldn't take a flight then, of course, so you went on thenext ship to Hilo. She was on the ship and my dad was on theship and they met and the romance started. He took a dayoff and drove them up to the Volcano House to see Madam Pelein action at Halemaumau and romance bloomed and it ended upthat Martha Davenport of Chattanooga,Tennesee,marriedStanley Kennedy of Honolulu, Hawaii. That's how my motherand dad met. I can't tell you exactly how my grandmother metmy grandfather. It wasn't quite that glamorous, but somehowit pertained to the sea and I bet on some kind of a boat inSan Francisco Bay.S:On the way to Sausalito or whatever.K:Yes,yes.The ferryboats were charging back andforth in those days there's where it could have happened.But to get back to my grand ather who set the tone foreverybody. He was a very serious man, a very capable man soI read in retrospect. And he was very good with numbers sohe knew that the bot tom line was the name of the game. Hedidn't care how many boats and ships you had out there, youhad to make a profit for the shareholders. He was good atthat; he was willing to reorganize and he got along with allthe local men because he had worked at the Iron Works. I'msure he knew pidgin--! never heard him talk it--he still hada little bit of a brogue as I remember. But he got alongwell with everybody. He was very tough with the unions. Onthe other hand, they liked him so he was able to makearrangements that were fair to both sides. The line wassuccessful and he got a lot of credit for being a tough guybut also an understanding one and a farsighted one.S:I don'tthat point.thinkIrealizedthattheywereunionizedat

ated I'm sure. They were just organizations: "Hey,brah, we get together and " You know. They did haveorganizations because some of the writings and readings showthat he had a tough time with a particular group. It mighthave been the navigators, maybe the engineers. It might nothave been the deckhands,but shortly thereafter,I canremember as a little boy having one of those ships up indry dock and my dad taking me down to Honolulu Harbor whichwas a pretty different design than it is today and there wasthe Haleakala--one of the big ones up there in the dry dockand they couldn't launch it because all of the dock workerswere on strike.I can remember going up to the fence and they all lovedmy dad--! could tell that--! never had any fear."Hey,Stanley,hey Stanley. Howzit? You know, you're the bigwhite rat to us," and so forth. And he'd say, "Aren't yougoing to let me in?" "Sure, we'll let you in." And we wentin and, "Oh, so you brought white rat, junior." And that wasme because I was Stanley, Junior. So for a while a lot ofpeople joked that I was called "white rat, junior." Thestory went around and it always interested me that they couldjoke that much about serious situations. There were smalldifferences and they were relatively easily y dad, and I was along with him, and some management peoplelaunched that big boat out into the harbor and got one of thecompany's tugs to tow it over to a dock. And all these guys--they didn't boo or throw rocks or anything--just clappedand yelled. They thought it was great that the boss had togo out there and do something like that. (laughs) So Iguess--there was a lot of trauma in that--it was a bigresponsibility and a very expensive ship--but it kind of hada lot of adventure and fun to it at the same time. Youdidn't expect any serious danger to anybody unless theybrought it on themselves.S:K:They were nonviolent.Nonviolent, yes, tough, tough, but nonviolent. Now thatmay not always have been the case, I don't know, but I'm justgiving you my recollections. At this point, I think I shouldgo back and talk about my grandfather.It so happened that as a young man, my grandmother andgrandfather always took me over to a place they had atMalaekahana Bay which is near Kahuku Point. It's betweenKahuku and Laie and it's the great big bay there. There wereonly about five little funny old country houses there at thattime. They had one there. They had a lease from CampbellEstate--the same Campbell Estate we have today--leasehold

7land--which the family gave up some timefind the time to go over there any more.ago.NobodycouldBut it was a wonderful place to go in those days. Glassballs were on the beach every morning in the winter, andshells, and lobsters were just practically off shore and youcould take several of your young buddies over and Grandma andGrandpa were always very wonderful about letting the youngfolks do what they wanted to do and we had a lot of fun.S:You hadjust one sister,right? Whatdifference there? Did she join in on this?K:Once I was twice as old as her, but really I'm only fiveyears older. When I was ten, she was five. No, she didn'tnecessarily--these are boy things I'm talking about, and myrecollection is that I was the one who spent the most timewith my grandmother. I'd always go and spend the night ather house there in town and so forth. This was boy-kind-ofstuff when Grandpa was still alive, and even later on afterboth my grandmother and grandfather died, my mother andfather used that beach place for entertaining people fromthe mainland who were visiting or friends. We would takefriends for the weekend. That was the beauty of a great bigunencumbered beach, there were a lot of fun things to do.wastheageI used to go for a walk early in the morning with cularly when it was low tide--it was a big, hard beachat low tide--he always wore the same shoes--just an olderpair than he wore to work--the big black hightop shoes thatyou went back and forth and zigzagged and didn't go throughshoe holes with laces--he went through those little thingsthat you laced around and then he would wear a--Moana Hoteltype bathing suit is what we call it today--the one piecewool bathing suit with a skirt, and I had a little one times he wore his regular clothes-- just a white shirtwith long sleeves (of course, there was no such thing asshort sleeves) and black pants.We were down at the north end of the beach and the beachis probably almost two miles and we were way down at one endand he was popping the Portuguese man-of-war with his shoes--that's why he liked to wear them. I was barefooted--! waspopping them barefooted because kids never put shoes on untilthey were well into high school and he popped a Portugeseman-of-war and I heard a bang--and he was behind me and Ilooked down and he was lying on the beach and he'd had a verysevere heart attack and he couldn't talk--he was just lyingthere.And he ultimately passed away.And I ran all the way--! didn't know I could run thatfar--all the way back to the house to tell Grandma and then

8they came all the way back--the roads were awful in thosedays--they weren't paved, some were coral--and the littleKahuku plantation hospital didn't offer much. They sent forthe ambulance, but they had to go in the car to Kahuku andthey had to call Kaneohe to get the ambulance and later thatday it rained. I just remember it was a long day for a kid.After my report of the problem, there were two cars--friendshad come although it was early in the morning, and one carcame up the beach and they took him and I walked back becausethere was no room in the cars. I just sort of remember thatit was one or two days he was there very ill in my grandmaand grandpa's room.You know, you always remember a house like that, everytiny thing about it. The big room was Grandma and Grandpa's.And you had to push up the storm blinds because screens wouldrust out in a week. They didn't have the plastic. I canremember that there was a lot of sadness around there becauseit was about two days that he was barely alive. They didn'ttake him anywhere. They decided to keep him there and try todo what they can.So that's how I lost my grandpa.I wasn't really that close to him although we werepals andIappreciatedhim andIlovedhim.Then mygrandmother and I became closer together in those followingtimes and she was just a wonderful lady and was alwaysinterested in everything that young people were doing. Shewas just a lovely, gentle woman, you know, and she liked nicethings. It didn't matter who the person was or what theirstation in life was or how much they had materially, shealways had a big smile for them. She was just a wonderfulperson.I remember her with great affection.S:Did she go back and forth to California--keep in touchwith the California part of the family?K:No, not really at all. They came out to the Islandsonce in a while. I guess I don't really remember that muchabout her out-of-town trips. She must have gone on occasion,but I don't remember any frequency at all.S:Well, I imagine that even though you weren't all thatclose to your grandfather, the fact that you were there whenhe had the heart attack had some effect on you.K:Oh, it had a definite effect. I could remember that fora long, long time in great detail and I also felt thereforethat much closer not just to him and my grandmother--not justas grandparents--but in everything that was associated. Itdraws you a little closer. I, too, like my dad had theadvantage of going on the ships and fishing off the fantail.In fact, I worked on the Humuula two differerent summers,when the cattle boats went between the Islands and I didn'thave a very pleasant job. If you can imagine a cattle boat

9and one of the more unpleasant jobs, that's the one I had.(laughs) But we did get--with another good friend of mine-our reward, in addition to the salary for that job, whichwas pretty meager, but it was a great experience. We wereat sea and we got to troll with a heavy cotton line. It wasa strong cotton line and you put an inner tube on it as ashock absorber. You could troll off the stern of the ship-the ship was going a little too fast to troll, but if you hada strong enough line and a big enough shock absorber youcould catch the ono. You could catch a thirty or forty poundono. That was the main thing we caught. You'd catch a mahimahi once in a while when you were slowing down coming intothe harbors. That was a lot of fun for youngsters, and othercrew members, too, I might add.And the Kona Inn was built by my dad as the head of thecompany because there had to be a place--if you were going toget into tourism as opposed to just the business people goingbetween the Islands--you had to have a place for them to stayand it had to be some place that was at tractive. The KonaInn was built in Kailua-Kona just exactly for that purpose.The original Kona Inn was with a big swimming pool set downin the rocks and fed with fresh ocean salt water. They alsohad a hotel in Kauai. Those were the first hotels thatInter-Island Steam built and owned there in order to have aplace so they could generate some kind of tourism. So thefirst early vestiges of tourism as such--the numbers weresmall, but they were certainly wonderful facilities.The Kona Inn was more tourism than business; and theKauai Inn was more business than tourism, but they couldaccommodate both. I remember the wonderful French toast inthe dining room and banana fritters. Isn't it funny how youcan remember things like that? And when we went up there asteenagers, we had two weeks free at the Kona Inn becausethere were always empty rooms. Whatever the least expensiveempty room was, this other friend and I had. He was BillBudge and his father was the head of Castle and Cooke. Wehad two weeks there after working all summer on the cattleboats.A sort of incentive-reward plan.And we not only fished, we caught Kona crabs, which area type of crab that live down in very deep water, severalhundred feet deep. Very few people know where those crabsare, but I remember a fabulous old guy, Solomon, a semiblindguy, who also didn't hear very well--with his outrigger canoewith a little outboard on it who would take Bill and me outand lay all these traps down in these places. It was downoff Kealakekua and Keauhou about a half or a quarter of e-shelled and they were about oh, six or eight inchesacross, and very soft and sweet. They're available once in awhile today, sometimes you see them in the market.

10Another thing we did--right behind the Kona Inn a coupleof hundred yards mauka--there was just wild brush and therewere a couple of old Portuguese men there with their huntingdogs, their pig dogs, and they'd take us pig hunting. Wewere just little kids fourteen, fifteen or sixteen years old,and he taught us how--once the dogs had that pig at bay--togo right on in and slit that throat. And boy, did we feelbig, brave guys. Those were days that you could do thingslike that. It was very exciting, not everybody did it.Actually, it was quite dangerous.But even twenty years ago, you see, my son never hadthose kinds of opportunities. He and I camped up at the topof the Waianae mountain range and found a small level spotand the pigs routed around us in our little pup tent in themiddle of the night.S:K:S:K:But you never used guns for that type of hunting?We never did. I imagine others did, but we never did.That's the way we did it. And you had to be young or toughto keep up with those old-timers. Anyway, those are justlittle vignettes of some of our activities. Another thingthat was wonderful about Kailua-Kana is that these cattlefreighters that took live cattle back to Honolulu also tooktwelve passengers, that's all they could accommodate. Andthey drove those cattle all the way from either the Konaranches or all the way--sometimes if it was too rough atKawaihae--they'd drive them all the way from the Parker Ranchto Kailua-Kana, which took a couple of days to say the leastand then, bright and early, one morning off they'd go intothe process which I won't describe to you.Well, I've seen the pictures of the slings.We'd go down there at night and watch them all singingtheir kanaka songs and they'd tell us to go home because nowsome of the cowboys are having a few too many beers orwhatever. In the morning, all the wives had made freshflower leis. When they charged the cattle off into theocean, they all had their leis on--tied the horns to the sideof a little whale boat and then they'd tow two or three ofthe whale boats off to the ship that was half a mile out inthe bay, and then they'd put on a bellyband one at a time andload the cattle up and come back chug, chug, chug, and lassosome more. You know, that was pretty exciting, it was afabulous time. You can see pictures of that in some places,but we were lucky enough to be in that area and at thattime.Coming back to Oahu, my dad liked sailing very much.He must have started sailing competitively when I was, oh Iguess, around twelve or fifteen years old. Pearl HarborYacht Club was inside Pearl Harbor. There was a wonderful

11yacht club there and there were no limits. You could sai 1around Ford Island and all the way down West Loch, et ceterabecause the U. S. Navy hadn't set up any restricted areas.Every once in a while there'd be a naval exercise. tIparticipated in. My dad raced a star class boat and I had alittle moon boat.I can remember seeing all the great ships of the Navythere, and I'd just be sailing my own little twelve-foot sailboat and be looking at the Lexington and the Saratoga andGeorge Patton. The great General Patton was a sailor, he wasat Schofield, and he was a sailor. He was a very weal thyperson. He had a schooner, about a seventy-foot black-hulledgorgeous schooner and he'd sail around Pearl before he'd goout the entrance and here we were just kids taking it all in.George Patton was also avery exciting polo player. Aflamboyant guy!When the first clippers came--the China Clippers andthat whole succession of clippers--that's where their basewas--inside Pearl Harbor. So we'd be there and watch themland, and watch them take off, and they'd shoo us out of theway some time. I just can't begin to tell you all the kindsof excitement that represented for many of us youngsters.We'd go shell hunting up in these mountains, not onlyout in the Waianae Mountains but these mountains right upbehind here, way up on top of Tan tal us; and we'd come backwith a whole sack of land shells, the most beautiful brightlycolored shells. The animals lived in shells in the trees andthey really sang, you could hear them and they were brilliantcolors,bright green and bright yellow stripes.Icanremember a red one, zigzagged black lines in it, wholecollections of them; you can't believe they all came out ofthese mountains. They're all gone, I believe. You'd go upat night and listen and you'd know which trees they were inand where.Then there was the shampoo ginger. We'd go on hikes andthere'd be certain ginger, just before it bloomed it had agreat big pod and the pod was full of all the juices thatmade the plant and the flower grow and you'd break that offat the bottom and if you were in a line hiking on a trail,you'd sneak up on the guy in front and "whack" hit him onthe head as hard as you can and it was all very gooey. Thatwas another of the fun times we had as kids with shampooginger.S:K:I can't imagine a better place to grow up in.It was wonderful. And then, of course, we did all theother things we were supposed to at school and played theregular sports. We also had wonderful chances to go deep sea

12fishing and spear fishing. When we went spear fishing, wedidn't have scuba outfits, et cetera. We couldn't go deep.We just had the goggles that generally we made out of hauwood and glass and we had a piece of bamboo with an innertube sling to pull the spear back and the spears were allhomemade. The barb was just the spear end flattened by ahammer and we'd put a little barb on it and off we'd go andwe did just fine, thank you.Of course, there were a lot more fish then off thereefs. There are a whole bunch of experiences just relatingto fishing that would make a wonderful story sometime, butmany of them have been told. It was just part of theeveryday life of a young man, mostly the men, the galsweren't that much into all that yet.S:K:Where did you go to grade school?I went to grade school right here in Honolulu. I wentto a little s

STANLEY CARMICHAEL KENNEDY, JR. (1921 - ) Stanley Kennedy, Jr., son and grandson of transportation pioneers of the Hawaiian Islands, tells of his grandfather's and father's roles in the . My grandfather was the first in our Kennedy family to arrive here. He was born in Scotland, Kirriemuir, Scotland in 1852. His family had all been .

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